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Thread: hummimg

  1. #1

    Default hummimg

    I don't know if I'll be wording this right but I was wondering....my daughters tics consist of throat noises... humming, noises from her nasal cavity. As she grows older is it possible for these to manifest into words.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    St. John's NL
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    Default Re: hummimg

    Hi Andre

    This is a good question. It is not that the current noises will manifest into words, but that the vocal tics youare hearing will wax and wane . This simply put just means comes and goes, now some will come and go and never be heard again while others will come and go and then come back. What may happen is that the vocal tics could present as words and phrases, but this does not happen with everyone. To date my oldest son has only ever made noises and not had an issue with words or phrases. Being a syndrome the vocal and motor symptoms will present differentky in all of us.

    How old is your daughter and has she been diagnosed with TS?
    Janet, mom of 4

    TSFC Homepage


    "Intelligence is always increasing; accommodation allows your intelligence to do what it has always done." Cassie Green, Washington College

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Ontario
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    Default Re: hummimg


    Hi Andre

    Welcome to the forum.

    Janet is right, in our case a couple of the vocal tics have stuck around while others have not returned for years.

    My son does say short phrases at times now but the same common vocal tics appear too so I have never seen a connection.

    Glad you found us and feel free to ask questions.
    PJK

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Georgia Chapter of the TSFC
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    Default Re: hummimg

    Andre:

    There is no reason to believe that those tics will turn into coprolalia, the utterance of vulgar or inappropriate outbursts. I know many people with TS+ (including myself, my brother, and my daughter) who have simple vocal tics, but no coprolalia. Coprolalia is NOT part of the escalation of vocal tics - they are a completely different beast in and of themselves. I am not saying your child does not have it (nothing with TS+ is 100%), but I am saying that there is no direct connection from the simpler noises to the intrusive outbursts, except the presence of the Tourette's genes. Also, even if your child also has OCD, coprolalia is still very rare.

    A debate is raging about vocal tics, verbal tics, and the like. I am not the only person with a strong opinion, of course, but here is mine, which is gaining acceptance with some of the doctors. Coprolalia is actually a symptom of OCD, not of TS, which is JUST tics. So-called verbal tics are components of the co-morbid (genetically linked) OCD, which is very, very common in folks with TS, and vice versa.

    But 'vocal' tics may simply be complicated tics which involve the diaphragm, throat, mouth, etc. Swallowing and coughing are common tics, and noisy breathing tics are not uncommon, either. Coprolalia is LESS and LESS common the more we know about TS+ (TS/ADHD/OCD). When I was born, coprolalia was mandatory for a TS diagnosis. Now it is a fringe problem, occuring in less than 1% of the TS population, depending on the researcher you quote.

    My point: I believe TS is a subset of OCD, not the other way around. I wish I could figure out how to link to another thread (Steve will have my head for copying / pasting, but oh well) but here is part of a thread I want you to see, where I explain my position. Please, please send me a message if you need anything clarified here. Basically, it is good news.

    ==========

    Coprolalia is the key. For a long, long time, you had to have it to get diagnosed with TS in the US and likely CA too. Tics, in the most generic sense, are just muscle contractions. Neurologists had this word way, way back. TS is just one thing on the tic list, if you will.

    However, saying that a tic can include LANGUAGE is just ridiculously over-complicated. I mean, in order for coprolalia to be a TIC, the mechanism that creates tics in your brain (likely in the reptile / lower brain) would have to be able to reach up into your left temporal lobe, and hit the Wernicke (language) and Broca (speech) areas of your brain, and go in and get some inappropriate language, sometimes totally in context, and push it out your mouth. What?! Who is zooming who here?

    It is MUCH simpler (Occam's Razor) to state that TS is a subset of OCD. OCD is definitely up in our higher / human brains. OCD makes me think things and see things that are NOT THERE, and are totally outside of my personality or desires. I mean, how many people have thoughts of driving head-long into oncoming traffic because they think it would be cool? Not many that are alive still...

    So, here is the thing: if OCD can make us say and think and feel things that are outside of our conscious control, to the level of sophistication that includes self-destructive behavior on some pretty grand scales, then why can't it reach DOWN into our lizard brain and move our fingers? Ha ha ha.

    I mean, when you flip it over that way, it seems (feels) pretty obvious to me.

    NO ONE wants to have OCD be the 'fulcrum' disorder for TS+. NO ONE. And I include myself. But when I analyze the reality of the disorders, and talk to other Touretters, and look at some pretty basic brain structure information, this all falls out the way I described above.

    ==========
    Darin M. Bush, The Tourette Tiger, author of "Tiger Trails"
    http://www.facebook.com/tourettetiger

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